Two war stories to show that the Greek IT market is doomed
February 4, 2008
(a quick intro: when I read this one, I really had to post about it)
War Story #1:
Navigate here
Check the prices for India. Check the cost of life in India. Check the average market rate for a Greek IT developer. Check the difference between cost of life in India and in Greece. QED
(yeap, I know that the prices quoted there include man in the middle fees, but still it looks pretty grim).
War Story #2:
Talking to a friend, he confided that once his company was needing to buy a software costing appx. 120K for a 5 seat license. The software vendor did a ROI analysis. When they got informed about the cost of developers, they exclaimed “Wow, Greece is cheaper than India!”.
So, dear IT managers. You do not pay well. In fact, you pay a bit better than India. You demand unpaid overtime. Don’t be alarmed when all the guys worth their salt either move out of the Greek job market or get snatched by the major players. Also, don’t be alarmed when you see that given your current skill field, you cannot get any innovative or highly paid projects, been stuck to the good ole fetch the data from backend, format it and present it $2000 t best projects. And for the love of God, don’t be alarmed when your company will die in a few years or become a “mpakaliko”.
February 4, 2008 at 5:32 pm
A major problem (and maybe the reason as well for low IT salaries in Greece) is the fact that in most high-tech shops the top management is not comprised by “high-tech” people but by “business” people.
By “business” I mean that they couldn’t care less if their company was selling sodas instead of software. Thus they can’t stand having developers who get paid as much as managers, having developers without a university degree being “highly” paid (!!!), they don’t like investments in technology (like having an R&D department, or working on a whole new product), etc. They were trained/educated to believe that in a proper business “everyone can be replaced”, they were conditioned to think that “short term” is the topmost priority. They have no passion for technology apart for their iPod (maybe), and yet they hold the fates of big Greek IT companies in their hands. And of course they NEVER let any high-tech person into top management: “Christ, these high-tech people have absolutely no clue as to how to run a business. We need an Operations Manager not an R&D Manager!!!”.
March 20, 2008 at 2:06 am
The problem is not “on” the manager side. Is the quality of the people who is in the technical department and arround. You have left clear about the managers. I agree on that and more
But what about the people who do the real job? Are they the best? Do they know the techniques needed? Let me answer: no.
Here in Greece there is the idea of “the things from outside” are better, thus, everybody who can goes outside to work, study. Even companies like more a product if it comes from outside than from inside. And those companies with “good” products feel ashamed of being Greek. (I can prove this with a coffe
)
Therefore, the quantity of good IT professionals in Greece is… low. It’s difficult to find a place of professional people. You can find experienced people, but not professionals (”professionals of the disaster” doesn’t count). Even the companies don’t look for “the best” guy, they’ve learned that a monkey, after some time, will type something useful, so they keep giving him bananas.
Perhaps that was too strong. I apologize. But where I work this happens. Less than appropriate candidates are selected, and they are planted (like a plant, or a bomb in CS) during weeks in front of the computer because the manages believe that the knowledge is contagious. So sooner or later they will learn.
The good thing is that there is a HUGE (put this in ultra duper bold H1) market in Greece for IT solutions. Well, for GOOD solutions. It’s difficult to get inside because Greeks don’t believe in Greeks (In the IT World).
BTW: I work as “winston wolfe” in Greece. My record is 16 hours working without paying overtime to save the company’s ass. I work with 3 intern guys, an economist, 2 managers, an undefined one (we can put a flowerpot there), and another with future.
March 20, 2008 at 12:27 pm
Looks like the company you are working in does not have a strong interview policy (like is the norm in Greece).
If you work 16 hours with no overtime, if you are within the regular pay bracket, then I’m sorry to say but you are a bit of a sucker.
The quantity of “kickass” IT Pros in Greece is not low. It is just that the world is full of amateurs, posing as developers, managers etc
March 20, 2008 at 2:57 pm
The interview is not the problem (I guess). Usually good candidates say NO to our offer. But mediocre or with the need of a job, accept.
Then the selection process is like: or we don’t hire anyone, we get one of the mediocre or we get an external.
The external guy is an interesting case. They’re usually amateurs with some coding skills. They believe in their company (not in “our”), and when they fed up, they just call for a change, and the cycle starts again.
About the number of IT professionals. I guess it’s not enough (or they hide). And if it’s full of amateurs then it’s low (If we consider IT current status = overload of amateurs + good pros).
BTW: I can give you more info and appear as a huge sucker. You’re right because I realized the same. But I just want to note that my alternatives right now aren’t many (Also I’m not glad of it). The day I become a non-sucker guy, you’re invited to a beer
March 21, 2008 at 12:25 pm
Hey graffic, first of all, thanks for the commentary.
Why do good candidates say NO to your offer? Isn’t it a sign that more things might be wrong that meets the eye? I mean, in the company I work for, some things might not be right but at least they have a strong interview process so I can count to the person next to me to know his stuff and not stall me/”pass the buck”/whatever.
So, it looks like you are in one of them “manager is king, operation people are slaves” companies, unfortunately all too common in Greece.
Basic team management (a skill not so often found in the field) dictates that your team is as strong as its weakest link. Slip in a couple of duds in there and you might see your crack development team turn to a bunch of crackheads. Of course, your standards might be a bit too high.
“We don’t hire anyone” - I wonder how this works? I mean if my company has an open job posting is because we REALLY need the guy/gal and there is no way in hell the rest of the team will get overworked.
For the contractors, dude it is obviously they only care about their interest, it is only logical. I have been a contractor myself and I can tell you, even though I was professional and one of the few people with half a clue in the team, that in the end of the day only my paycheck mattered, the rest is just one project out of many.
You can stop being a sucker anytime. Even if you have signed a “your soul belong to us” contract, it will end someday. If you are a regular employee, move on to the next job …
I could go on and on but let’s keep it short.